Saturday, April 1, 2017

More on the Holton Revelation tenor saxophone



So I've finally gotten to put this old Holton tenor through some paces. I want to share some impressions as there is a bit of interest in these horns and talk of the price possibly rising.

If you read this, don't worry about all that. These are great bargain horns. There is a reason why some old horns sell for the money they sell for. It's easy to resent the unobtanium, but it's easy to just get on with it and find something you love and play the heck out of it.

That being said, I like my Holton, I don't love it. I love my Buescher Aristocrat from '36 and on some days I love my Conn 10M, also from '36.

I don't really like to write in the "This vs. That" vein, but this may be useful to some who are interested.

Now, there was one of these that sold last year for around $725. You've probably already found the old listing if you happen to be doing a web search on a Holton Revelation tenor. In it the seller says something about his friend the player trying it and comparing it to the legendary Selmer Mk6 and saying it it's comparable in terms of tone and power. Please, don't buy into that. Maybe it's true to the person who wrote it and played it. I'm not a Selmer player but I have played some that made me go "well, if cost were no object, this would be mine!" or "Oh, I get it." I've played plenty that made me just go "meh, whatever" as well. But even those are, well, a step up, a big ass step up from the Holton.

The next is "the poor mans Conn".... No, that's called the Pan American. Those can be really good. And this horn is far different than any Conn I've ever played or owned, and Conn is the horn I've spent the most time on. Different sound altogether, brighter, wider, in some ways richer.

The next one you may have read it "tinny sound and sketchy intonation at best". That one came from an administrator at Sax on the Web apparently.

Let me answer to that. If all I did was spend a few minutes on this horn I would have come to the same conclusion. It is difficult being we are on the wrong side of the horn to really hear ourselves. Some horns I can hear myself better on than others. My Buescher is great that way. Good sense of the note. My Conn, not as good. When I had a Selmer from 1930 that was the only thing that kept me from selling it, great 'sense of the note'. This horn it's difficult to tell how I'm projecting.

Why is that? I don't really know. What I have experienced is this: it's a brighter horn, by far. It reminds me of a Cleveland tenor I once had for a minute, a 30's model. Bright and raunchy. Though this horn blows much better in tune than any King I've played. While I'm not a fan of bright horns in general, I can see this horn having it's place in the studio. The King I had I just couldn't blow in tune, but the sound I got for some nasty section stuff was unbeatable. This covers that base.

I'm not going to get all technical on you, I'll just keep a couple little things that I see. The neck socket is smaller than my Conn or Buescher. Those 2 are interchangeable and about 28.4mm in diameter. The Holton is 28mm. I had a later Collegiate that was wider than my Conn or Buescher! A lot wider. For me difficult to focus that horn.

Also the palm key tone holes are BIG on the Holton. Considerably wider than on my Conn or Buescher. I gotta say, the high end is my favorite part on the Revelation. It has a openness and a complexity upstairs my Conn lacks, and the Buescher can get, believe it or not, a little too rich up there for me! But I'm not complaining. Point being, I feel like I can get lazy with my airstream on the Conn, the Buescher is more demanding of my attention and I can push the core around to my liking. On the Holton with my Early Babbit Super Tone Master piece if I'm lazy what I get is the tin can alley. Not good. But after playing it for an hour I settled in and found if I'm focused and am playing with a really open throat, I get a full sound. It seems this horn just needs me to play with more support. It's just a different experience to fill it up than my other 2. I can't be lazy with this horn. Not a bad thing but not the best for me as some days I like my lazy.

You'll also read about Holton's clunktastic key work. If you are used to old American horns, this model is pretty damned good. Not as fast as my Conn but faster than my Buescher.

Now with any horn some times it's a matter of matching it to the right mouthpiece. I have 2 pieces, my Otto Link metal and an old Brilhart Hard Rubber piece opened up by my man Sakshama up in Queens. The Link is my go to piece. Never selling it. And it's cured my need to seek. When a piece simply solves a problem you may have struggled with for a decade, find the money. It was worth the chunk of change I forked over for it. The Brilhart I go back and forth on. Great player but I'm not 100% stoked on the sound I get, especially on my beloved Buescher. It's very 50's Sonny Rollins. Now, before you laser beam me off the map, Sonny is one of my absolute heroes, and I love his sound especially from that era. It's just such a big ass sound, not what I'm going for. Funny thing is I spent years working towards that, now I'm moving towards my own bag....

So the Brilhart on my Buescher is not my favorite. But I put it on the Holton and it's instant love. Great big, clear, rich tone. It can get too bright and a bit stuffy on my Buescher, on this horn it's the ticket to Hollywood. So if I keep the horn I'll keep that piece. It's a fantastic match.

THE BELL TEST:

My old teacher, W.C. Cage in Portland Oregon used to do this thing whenever I would bring him a new horn. He would tap the bell and compare it to his 10M that he played since the 40's. His horn being tapped was dead. "That's how you can tell a good horn!" he would say, "that metal".  He would tap a horn of mine and you'd hear 'clang, clang, ring' and he'd say to me "dump it!" Oh that used to make me mad. "A good horn has that deadness to the tap".

Now, you're going to get some kind of ring to it, but my Conn and Bueshcer are pretty dead in that department. The Holton rings much louder. The Conn and Buescher make a Bb, the Holton a C. Maybe that's what he meant. Maybe that's what he was listening for? Maybe that's all jive and now in my head. I do know this: the first good horn I had was an old Martin Handcraft. It was dead and a Dodo. He said "You got yourself a good horn!" No brand snobbery, it was a 1930 split bell Handcraft I sold to a friend later on. And yes, Mr Cage was right. That was a really good horn. Just had a great sound and felt solid. The brighter horns I've played and owned don't tend to pass the bell test. Doesn't make them a bad horn, it just makes them not as likable by me.

But like I said, this may be the perfect horn for some recordings I do where I need to sound more raunchy than I do on my other horns. I think this horn gets nastier than my Buescher, and I thought that wasn't possible!

So the only other thing I haven't done yet is use it with my band or on a gig. I'm not sure I trust it enough yet. When my drummer changes a drum head, it can change the way the band sounds. A horn can do that too and it's all about the group sound to me. And like I said, I don't know how it projects. We play acoustically and we can get pretty crazy so I need to be able to get over the top. I do intend to re-pad this horn and my guess is the guts will come out better with that. But bright horns and me are not the best match. Same with bright guitars and amps, that lower mid is important. (funny thing, playing this horn quietly it's all mid heaven, loud is where it brightens up).

So like I said, this is a cool horn. If you are curious about one, I hope this helps. These are very hard to find so if you do buy one, buy it knowing if it needs work you're not going to make any dough flipping it, that is if you don't dig it. It's no Selmer, it's no Conn. If you want a Selmer, save your money and buy one (I can finally afford one myself but would rather put a down on a house and take a vacation! If I can save.......then.......). If you want a Conn, buy a Conn. If you want something different and away from the rest, give one of these a go.

Oh, and some demos:

With Metal Link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyu1yBG4fCs



With Rubber Brilhart......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd2S5slUEqI&t=58s

Enjoy! JB

6 comments:

  1. Nice writeup, mang ..

    I play a lot of different horns myself but do own a few Holtons that
    I dig as well - a modele 241 tenor, and modele 230, 231, and 232 altos.
    I DO enjoy variety in saxofons,,it keeps things fresh for me >>

    Conn tranny tenor,early Buescher Big B tenor, late 50s King Zeph tenor
    sometimes my late True Tone tenor hits just the right spot, too !

    I have a late 50s Cleveland tenor that really gets down with a nice
    rubber Berg. A wild ride!! Definitely have to match the mpc to the
    horn, and I switch 'em up according to the tenor for best results.

    Anyway,, the Holtons indeed are their own animal, I agree .
    Interesting beasties . Quirky, ja.. but pretty dang good, actually
    I also have a 1929 Selmer tenor thats a gas to play low end is sharp
    though , , ,

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    1. Ha! That's a lotta horns!!!

      I remember those days. I'm down to two.

      I had a Selmer Balanced Action right before the pandemic. I kept reading about those sharp bell keys. That horn, I thought I had that problem but when I put a tuner to it the bell keys were dead on! The rest of the horn blew flat for me. But with time it got better and if I had kept it and made it my daily player I would have it together by now. That was a great horn.... but I liked the fat pile of money I got for it more than the horn so.....

      I've been curious about the 241 Holton. I'll likely never buy one but I would love to hear your impressions.

      Thanks for writing!

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  2. There's a Revelation tenor on eBay like, forever that's overpriced
    since it probably needs some work. Curious to try one, though.

    I have an early 40's Collegiate tenor that needs some TLC
    but shows potential. Should probably get that done before
    anything .

    Oh..and I (((love))) bright guitars thru bright amps.
    Like :
    a Ric thru a TopBoost AC30 or a 50's strat thru a HIWATT
    Brilliant input just to name a couple .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's tricky... don't overpay, if you don't keep it you'll lose a lot of dough, but I think they are quite good. I'd probably have kept this one if it didn't need a lot of work, too risky. So in hindsight I didn't get a really fair assessment. Lately I'm on a 1924 New Wonder I bought for $800 in silver plate and it's keeping me really happy. They can be had cheap as chips!

      I would like to try a good 241 or 243 some day. There's a young really good jazz player who plays a 241 currently so maybe his star power will get more people interested in these old Holtons? That would be cool!

      And yeah, while I prefer a bright guitar on a darker amp, bright on bright is a sound in the color palette! If can be what is just right. I always blend the bright channel on an AC30 with the vibrato channel. Mostly the Vibrato with the bright mixed in. Heaven!! That's the same with a 4 input Marshall. Such a rich sound.

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  3. Oy... the Holtons might be the last ones to succumb to inflation,
    but let's hope not. Probably will at some point, though, ha ha .
    I def'ly agree with buying as cheap as possible on these .

    The New Wonder tenors have a solid track record sonically.
    Can't really get a bad sound with 'em.

    4-input Marshalls are the stuff of legends, no doubt.
    On the cheap the Traynor YBA-1s and 1-As are very nice
    in stock form or you can tweak values close to Plex spec.

    I more than kinda dig the brownface Bassman heads, tho'
    Brownface Showman is anutha soul machine with that
    groovy trem and big output tranny.

    Enjoying your blog .
    Cheers !

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    Replies
    1. Ruben Fox, that's the guy who is playing a Holton 241 these days. There's some nice video of him playing with Emmet Cohen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z9HfHFmN3k

      I started my journey on a Holton Collegiate. It was a good place to start. I paid $200 for it. Years later I got to try another one and I don't think I would get into one again. It lacked focus but then again I only had that one for a few days. I remember it being really bright too.

      I really want to like Holton horns! That being said the later 241 and 243 models still intrigue me and I'd love to try one.

      I had a King Cleveland for a minute, a 30's or 40's model that was silver plated. It reminded me of this Revelation. Bright in color, zero to nasty on a dime. Fantastic in the filth department but the intonation was impossible. The later Cleveland horns, if you like bright and cheap, they can be really good. Big sound, in tune and can cut glass. In fact a good friend of mine who has been a lifelong Conn Chu player is on a Cleveland these days as his main horn. He plays blues mostly and he loves the focus and filth he gets from that horn. I think he paid around $250 for it!

      So if it were up to me I would seek out a mighty Cleveland. The Holton Collegiate I played for a few days just didn't do anything for me personally. I remember the neck tenon to be significantly wider than my Conns so therein is the start of the issue: I would have to practice day and night just to get used to it!

      I'm a big fan of the Traynor amps. And yes, the old rare white Tolex Showman amps are a force to be reckoned with. I've rebuilt a few. I owned a white Bandmaster for a long time and a Brown concert. They're odd amps in that the tone controls are active and they just don't seem to break up but wow, I love the sound of that series.


      I should say one more thing: I wouldn't sink a lot of money into your Collegiate. I don't think those horns really represent what the flagship Holtons can do. It's a second line horn. I went through a phase with second line horns: Conn Pan American, Buescher Bundy from the 30's (The Wayne Shorter Bundy!), Martin stencils, King Cleveland. They all lack that richness of the flagships with the exception of the Martin stencils or Indiana (if you can get a good one!). They all had that good solid fundamental without enough of the color. People sell 30's Bundies for over a grand now, Saxquest has one and just sold another. You can buy an Aristocrat for less on a good day and not much more on a regular day. There's too many American horns out there to sell so there's no reason to overpay!!

      Good luck out there! Jef

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