So why should I buy an old saxophone? Why should I buy a new one?
This question gets asked and debated often. There are pros and cons, or are there? I dunno. Maybe.
First... why buy an old saxophone?
Sound!
Cause old ones sound better. Simple.
But what about new ones? Why?
Sound!
I haven't personally played many new ones that I found my sound particularly exciting on. I much prefer my old horns. I find most new horns which are inspired by Selmer sound rather clean and neutral. Not bad, just not exciting. They lack color. That includes new Selmer and the many Taiwanese horns made, Yanagisawa and Yamaha from Japan. I owned a Yanigisawa from the 70's. Was glad to move that one along. (Buyer loved it I should mention!) But they are consistent.
So yeah, sound is it. Are we done here?
Nope. I played a non high F# Borgani recently that grabbed my attention. Priced at $3k used, if I had the dough I'd have bought it. No it didn't sound like an American classic horn, it had a boldness to it like my Conns for sure, but it really had something special. I also played a Rampone & Cazzani at KB Sax recently. I played 2 of them. The first one knocked me out. The second did little for me. I'm just glad there is inconsistency out there. Another player would have a different experience. The first one reminded me a bit of my beloved Buescher with modern key work. Rich and interesting.
I also played at KB a few Tenor Madness horns with no high F#. Boring.... until I tried one of his necks on it. The whole thing came to live. I didn't like the tanky feel of the Tenor Madness but that was a great sounding horn with his neck. I did however find the Italian horns to be really friendly in the feel department.
So why buy an old horn?
Feel! They feel different. Here's where it gets more fun.
If you were raised on modern keys, if you started on a Yamaha 23, you probably won't want an old American horn. Let's start with my Conn New Wonder.
Mine is early. Notice the Euro coin I glued to the F key for comfort. The left hand is challenging too!
And the G# cluster is rather crude....... Not for everyone!
And the palm keys. They improved these a few years later. The hi Eb is kind of stupid.
And with old Conns the biggest complaint is the neck angle and where the strap hook is placed. Tenor players were expected to sit while they played. Thanks to Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young 90 years ago, we're now liberated! Woo hoo! But really, if you want an old Conn just get a gizmo like mine to lower the strap hook, or pay your tech the measly twenty bucks or so to have it moved!
All this being said about my Conn New Wonder, I'm so used to the thing none of this bugs me. I was happy to try a modern neck and get the strap hook moved, modern neck that is best is the 16M Mexican Conn from the late 60's into the 70's. But, I'm back on the old neck and I'm happy.
The 16M neck I felt improved intonation a bit, and was more focused. All good things but whatever.
My Buescher is not terribly different from the New Wonder. It does feel better but either is ok with me.
And oh yeah, I like the looks of old horns way better. I love a classy engraving be it art nouveau or art deco!
So the first 2 are really old school key work. For me a non issue but I understand those who have been playing for year on new horns. Probably not worth making the transition.
The next 2 horns were developed about the same time and are slick as can be.
The Conn 10M. I know, I know..... people love to complain about the keys on these horns, but I find them to be by far the fastest in the west. And I'm not alone in this. Check out Sal Nistico here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEW7d-87b48
So piss off to those that like to spread this myth. The 10M was modern and to me still is. And nobody will make this key system ever again which is a shame. So if you like a 10M and want a 10M sound and feel, then you just need to buy a 10M. This may be the exception here on this post. I think these are a great crossover.
Now I can see if you have large hands, the right hand may be tight for you. In that case buy a later 10M or have the keys spread out a bit.
Lightning G# cluster!
And elegant rather industrial American engraving!
I should mention too that the 10M for me is hard to connect with. Why? It's just so easy. Free blowing and fast. I need my horns to fight me a bit. It's an amazing sounding horn live, I just feel like it's not there.
So why buy a new horn? The feel!
So last is my Selmer Balanced Action. This is what most horns gravitated to and eventually copied.
The G# cluster is what most folks like. I never like it on a modern horn, but on an old Selmer Balanced or Super Balanced, or even the King Super 20, I find it easy to get used to. I don't know why I hate it so much on the Mk6 and it's many copies, and love it on this horn, I find it to be so light on these old Selmers:
Palm keys are perfect.
These are beautifully engraved though mine is a re-lacquer so it's a mush pile!
I have to say even my re-lacquered at least twice Balanced Action sounds more lively than any new horn that is doing it's best to mimic it. At least any that I have tried. I have played a few Super Balanced Action horns and I can say I get it. They feel the best of any Selmer or Selmer type horn to me. Though with those like any old horn, sonically I've played at least one I'd pay insane dollars for if I could, and more than a few that made me go "meh, what's the point?"
Why buy an old horn? The weight! None of my horns are neck stressers.
Why are new horns so heavy? Seriously. Neck issues! I owned a couple Buffet tenors what weighed too much for me, and tried some Keilwerth New King and SML horns, so it's not just new horns really, but I have yet to play a new horn with the exception of the Italian horns mentioned here that weren't tanks!!!!! It feels heavy, I play heavy. It's psychological. It feels light I dance.
So why buy a new horn? The weight! Some folks seem to think heavy means serious. Good high quality brass. If that's what you think then you'll probably dig a heavy P. Mauriat or new Selmer Reference 54. Got for it if you find that helpful.
So this article hasn't actually helped me out much at all. I guess the point is, it's a pointless discussion. Get out there and try as many horns as you can and grab the one that speaks to you. It's an investment after all, and investment in you. Financially and time wise. The more you stick to one thing and grow with it, the more it grows with you and the more you'll get out of life.
Ok. New horns generally have better intonation. Though, my 1920's Martin soprano has pissed off more than a few good soprano players cause they had an easier time playing it in tune than their modern Yamaha or other horns. Same as a 1924 New Wonder alto I sold to a friend as a back up to his high end Yamaha. He found the Conn easier and liked the sound better. The Yamaha is his rainy day horn now!
So even that is useless. Oh well. I tried! Just focus on the music you make and grab the best tool for the job. And that's it. Simple right???
J
This question gets asked and debated often. There are pros and cons, or are there? I dunno. Maybe.
First... why buy an old saxophone?
Sound!
Cause old ones sound better. Simple.
But what about new ones? Why?
Sound!
I haven't personally played many new ones that I found my sound particularly exciting on. I much prefer my old horns. I find most new horns which are inspired by Selmer sound rather clean and neutral. Not bad, just not exciting. They lack color. That includes new Selmer and the many Taiwanese horns made, Yanagisawa and Yamaha from Japan. I owned a Yanigisawa from the 70's. Was glad to move that one along. (Buyer loved it I should mention!) But they are consistent.
So yeah, sound is it. Are we done here?
Nope. I played a non high F# Borgani recently that grabbed my attention. Priced at $3k used, if I had the dough I'd have bought it. No it didn't sound like an American classic horn, it had a boldness to it like my Conns for sure, but it really had something special. I also played a Rampone & Cazzani at KB Sax recently. I played 2 of them. The first one knocked me out. The second did little for me. I'm just glad there is inconsistency out there. Another player would have a different experience. The first one reminded me a bit of my beloved Buescher with modern key work. Rich and interesting.
I also played at KB a few Tenor Madness horns with no high F#. Boring.... until I tried one of his necks on it. The whole thing came to live. I didn't like the tanky feel of the Tenor Madness but that was a great sounding horn with his neck. I did however find the Italian horns to be really friendly in the feel department.
So why buy an old horn?
Feel! They feel different. Here's where it gets more fun.
If you were raised on modern keys, if you started on a Yamaha 23, you probably won't want an old American horn. Let's start with my Conn New Wonder.
Mine is early. Notice the Euro coin I glued to the F key for comfort. The left hand is challenging too!
And the G# cluster is rather crude....... Not for everyone!
And the palm keys. They improved these a few years later. The hi Eb is kind of stupid.
And with old Conns the biggest complaint is the neck angle and where the strap hook is placed. Tenor players were expected to sit while they played. Thanks to Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young 90 years ago, we're now liberated! Woo hoo! But really, if you want an old Conn just get a gizmo like mine to lower the strap hook, or pay your tech the measly twenty bucks or so to have it moved!
All this being said about my Conn New Wonder, I'm so used to the thing none of this bugs me. I was happy to try a modern neck and get the strap hook moved, modern neck that is best is the 16M Mexican Conn from the late 60's into the 70's. But, I'm back on the old neck and I'm happy.
The 16M neck I felt improved intonation a bit, and was more focused. All good things but whatever.
My Buescher is not terribly different from the New Wonder. It does feel better but either is ok with me.
And oh yeah, I like the looks of old horns way better. I love a classy engraving be it art nouveau or art deco!
So the first 2 are really old school key work. For me a non issue but I understand those who have been playing for year on new horns. Probably not worth making the transition.
The next 2 horns were developed about the same time and are slick as can be.
The Conn 10M. I know, I know..... people love to complain about the keys on these horns, but I find them to be by far the fastest in the west. And I'm not alone in this. Check out Sal Nistico here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEW7d-87b48
So piss off to those that like to spread this myth. The 10M was modern and to me still is. And nobody will make this key system ever again which is a shame. So if you like a 10M and want a 10M sound and feel, then you just need to buy a 10M. This may be the exception here on this post. I think these are a great crossover.
Now I can see if you have large hands, the right hand may be tight for you. In that case buy a later 10M or have the keys spread out a bit.
Lightning G# cluster!
And elegant rather industrial American engraving!
I should mention too that the 10M for me is hard to connect with. Why? It's just so easy. Free blowing and fast. I need my horns to fight me a bit. It's an amazing sounding horn live, I just feel like it's not there.
So why buy a new horn? The feel!
So last is my Selmer Balanced Action. This is what most horns gravitated to and eventually copied.
The G# cluster is what most folks like. I never like it on a modern horn, but on an old Selmer Balanced or Super Balanced, or even the King Super 20, I find it easy to get used to. I don't know why I hate it so much on the Mk6 and it's many copies, and love it on this horn, I find it to be so light on these old Selmers:
Palm keys are perfect.
These are beautifully engraved though mine is a re-lacquer so it's a mush pile!
I have to say even my re-lacquered at least twice Balanced Action sounds more lively than any new horn that is doing it's best to mimic it. At least any that I have tried. I have played a few Super Balanced Action horns and I can say I get it. They feel the best of any Selmer or Selmer type horn to me. Though with those like any old horn, sonically I've played at least one I'd pay insane dollars for if I could, and more than a few that made me go "meh, what's the point?"
Why buy an old horn? The weight! None of my horns are neck stressers.
Why are new horns so heavy? Seriously. Neck issues! I owned a couple Buffet tenors what weighed too much for me, and tried some Keilwerth New King and SML horns, so it's not just new horns really, but I have yet to play a new horn with the exception of the Italian horns mentioned here that weren't tanks!!!!! It feels heavy, I play heavy. It's psychological. It feels light I dance.
So why buy a new horn? The weight! Some folks seem to think heavy means serious. Good high quality brass. If that's what you think then you'll probably dig a heavy P. Mauriat or new Selmer Reference 54. Got for it if you find that helpful.
So this article hasn't actually helped me out much at all. I guess the point is, it's a pointless discussion. Get out there and try as many horns as you can and grab the one that speaks to you. It's an investment after all, and investment in you. Financially and time wise. The more you stick to one thing and grow with it, the more it grows with you and the more you'll get out of life.
Ok. New horns generally have better intonation. Though, my 1920's Martin soprano has pissed off more than a few good soprano players cause they had an easier time playing it in tune than their modern Yamaha or other horns. Same as a 1924 New Wonder alto I sold to a friend as a back up to his high end Yamaha. He found the Conn easier and liked the sound better. The Yamaha is his rainy day horn now!
So even that is useless. Oh well. I tried! Just focus on the music you make and grab the best tool for the job. And that's it. Simple right???
J
